Something that's been bothering me

"Racescort666" (Racescort666) 05/15/2015 at 10:40 • Filed to: None

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This is going to sound like a rant about an unpopular opinion but it is absolutely car related. The topic is specifically modifying diesel equipped vehicles in the U.S. but since the most popular are trucks that’s what it’s about.

Now, I hate douchebag coal rollers as much as anyone, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! comes out !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in stemming these assholes, I cringe.

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Why is that? Because the wording is always too vague and basically says “modifying the emissions equipment is illegal.” You might be thinking to yourself “sounds perfectly reasonable.” By and large, yes it is. Except that this means you can’t do any engine modifications to anything you’d want to ever drive on the street again.

As an occasional truck enthusiast, this poses a bit of a problem. Something like a chip that can be selectable could potentially be compliant on highway and changed to a “defeat emissions” calibration off highway (e.g. ORV park, trails, drag strip, places you’d want more power). However, by the letter of the law (because let’s face it, Steve Lehto will tell you that is all that matters), it would still be illegal and you’d be subject to fines.

Taking it to the next level: turbo upgrade, could potentially not impact your emissions at low power. But there’s no way to know without a shitload of R&D work. Also, that turbo will do you no good without recalibrating the ECU which is also illegal by the letter of the law. And to make it compliant with emissions? Also a shitload of R&D work. In fact, that’s probably one of the most expensive parts of engine development because it’s damn near trial and error to get it right. On top of that, you’ll have no idea if you fuck up your OEM installed emissions equipment until you fuck it up. Then it’s very expensive to replace and you’re essentially nowhere.

That’s why !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! are very confusing. We have half thought out articles on the glories of new legislation then turn around and say “everything is right in the world for automotive enthusiast, OEMs are ok with us modifying our diesel trucks.” When in fact, these 2 things are in conflict.

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Thoughts?

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 10:46

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I think the key here is about being visibly modified. If you are belching out black smoke it’s pretty clear you have modified it to be intentionally worse. If you tune it properly it won’t be visibly tuned beyond being quicker and probably noisier.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 10:47

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Modifying the emissions equipment and modifying the cars are two different things. If you turbo your car and decide to gank the cat while you’re at it, that was illegal in the first place. These anti coal-roller laws are pretty much redundant anyway. Rolling coal is already illegal at the federal level. The state laws are just there to make noise.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 10:48

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Too many people confuse “I don’t like it” and “it’s (unsafe, unhealthy, problematic in some way)“ with “it should be illegal”. Abuse of a liberty does not axiomatically mean that liberty shouldn’t exist. I should note, however, that the Clean Air Act already makes modification or alteration of emissions equipment very dodgy - the trouble here is that the EPA is not well equipped to clamp down on an individual user, but state governments very much can be and are more likely to have a very vaguely written law backing them up.

Racescort666 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 05/15/2015 at 10:48

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The problem is that all diesels smoke at high power. If you have one without a particulate filter, it will smoke at high power.

Racescort666 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/15/2015 at 10:51

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The point that I was making about chips and turbos is that those 2 things modify the emissions equipment. The whole thing works as a system. Slapping a turbo on a car and leaving the cat in place would still likely make it non-compliant.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 10:54

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What do you think you’ll be bypassing? EGR? That’s still in place. Cat? That stays. PCV valve? That stays. You aren’t defeating emissions equipment when you turbo a car. Yes, your emissions can go up, but that’s not the same thing. Your emissions go up if you have a lead foot too.

Milky > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 10:57

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The answer here is don’t visibly “roll-coal” in front of a cop. If you throw black smoke everywhere, every time you leave a light then you are an asshole and deserve a ticket.

BigBlock440 > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 11:02

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Agree completely.

Milky > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/15/2015 at 11:03

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“I don’t like it” when its on someone just to be an ass. Out in the woods or a dragstrip? 110% do it. On a miata or prius because you’re a d-bag? Get a ticket.

spanfucker retire bitch > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 11:05

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But you’re not. If you use a high-flow CAT, the CAT is still there. The emissions coming out of your tail pipe haven’t changed. You aren’t breaking any laws.

That’s specifically why if you purchase a downpipe without a CAT it’s always sold with the disclaimer that it’s for off-road use only.

And the law mentioned above even goes so far as to specifically state the modifications have to enhance the ability to blow soot. Meaning if you modified your exhaust to improve breathing and/or performance, you’re fine. You didn’t modify it to blow diesel directly into the exhaust to make thick plums of smoke and soot.

Seriously, the law isn’t even remotely vague about that. It doesn’t ban modifying emissions equipment, it specifically states that it bans modifying it to enhance the ability to “roll coal.”

Which as the OP of this comment thread said above, was practically redundant as you’re breaking the emissions regs at the federal level that were set by the EPA.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Milky 05/15/2015 at 11:11

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I’m perfectly okay with handling that under reckless driving, TBH. Something that is being done, as a driver, to present a danger to other drivers. That’s actively crosses the proverbial right to swing fist ends at other’s face line, but it’s not a compelling argument that the ability to roll coal itself should be banned.

Racescort666 > Milky 05/15/2015 at 11:15

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The common sense answer is to use common sense but impact to the aftermarket worries me a bit.

Racescort666 > spanfucker retire bitch 05/15/2015 at 11:19

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The cat isn’t some magic box that converts exhaust gas into something that meets EPA regs. It does that to some degree but engine calibration is hugely important. Sure, the cat’s there but if you change the engine calibration it’s not doing what it was designed to. This is modifying the emissions equipment because the engine calibration is part of the emissions equipment.

Milky > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/15/2015 at 11:21

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Ehh IMHO “ban” is a strong word. I’ve had no muffler (sawzall’d off or dump pipe) for over 4 years and I’ve never had a cop even say anything about it … and I get pulled over probably too often. I think this will be one of those “ don’t do it front of a cop and you’ll be okay” , things.

Milky > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 11:22

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I wouldn’t even worry about that, companies sell stuff all the time with a label for “off road use only”. Put the disclaimer on there and its all good.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/15/2015 at 11:26

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Yes, that’s exactly what a cat is.

Racescort666 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/15/2015 at 11:31

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Yes, you are defeating the emissions equipment because it’s all designed to work as a system. Just because you have a catalytic converter, EGR, PCV, doesn’t mean that it’s functioning as intended since it’s intended to be compliant.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 11:39

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The cat, PCV, and EGR are the emissions devices on a gas car. These are passive devices that do not rely on computers. They are the only emissions devices, and even EGR isn’t really an emissions device. It was more of a fuel saver by lowering the amount of oxygen the O2 sensor was receiving and making the car burn lean as a result. Computers and tuning make modern engines burn less fuel , but they don’t really put out any better emissions per gallon burned than they did thirty years ago. Rolling coal makes your diesel put out more emissions per gallon by removing the particulate filter. Rolling coal is done by removing or altering the emissions devices. Turbocharging isn’t.

TJDMAX > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 11:49

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As a diesel truck owner i think you make some good points but there are some you need clarifying on as well. First, let me just say that it sucks when you own a vehicle that is getting a bad reputation from many other owners of similar vehicles and you genuinely own the vehicle for its intended use.

Now, with respect to diesel trucks, the way that smog and emissions works (at least in CA which is probably the strictest state for emissions) is that a smog shop will only do a visual check on your truck every two years. They will pop the hood and “look” for your emissions equipment and then with the truck in park they rev it up to like 4 grand or some dumb rpm and “check for smoke”. Now this test is pretty useless for many reasons but we don’t need to get in to that now. From my experience some shops are strict and i had a shop once reject my truck because I had an aftermarket air intake on it. Nothing else, just an intake. And because it didn’t have a CARB sticker they said it was no good.....Some shops don’t give as much care, its just a guessing game.

So yes, if you modify or remove things like the EGR or put some crazy twin turbo set up on your truck chances are it wont pass the visual. When it comes to the software stuff no one will know. They just don’t want to see your programmer sitting on your dash. The smog shop will check the obd2 for codes but that won’t tell them if its tuned or not.

There are also companies like Banks Performance that offer complete packages that are CARB approved. You pay out the ass for that...but its an option for some.

So while i’m not a fan of coal rollers, I am a fan of modifying and i do have a modified diesel truck that currently passes smog in California. The smog process for a diesel truck is stupid and useless but i’m not going to complain because the way it is right now means that I can have the modifications I have (intake, exhaust tune, etc) and not have to worry about a tail pipe test. If you had the same modifications on a gas vehicle it likely wouldn’t pass smog either...

Racescort666 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/15/2015 at 12:19

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Just so we’re on the same page, when I say “emissions” I’m talking about what the EPA regulates. Specifically: carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, and particulate matter. Source. Every part of the combustion and aftertreatment process will affect these pollutants.

The engine calibration is part of the emissions control as well. The devices don’t magically make exhaust gas compliant with the emissions regs, they need to be sized and calibrated to work with the engine they are attached to.

Also, EGR is absolutely an emission control device/technique, it reduces NOx, that’s the whole reason for using it. The whole reason for not using it: it kills fuel economy. Nothing to do with the oxygen sensor.

vwbeamer > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 12:26

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random thoughts

1.Any after market part could alter emissions, even a non performance enhancing one. Like replacement muffler, may have more or less back pressure, which could alter air-fuel ratios. Under the letter of the law, you would have to back to the dealer for any part that could possibly affect emissions.

2. My 2004 jetta TDi “rolls coal”. I don’t want it to, but when it’s 95F degrees, and the intercooler is heat soaked from stop and go traffic, it’s going to blow black smoke if I get on it hard.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Racescort666 05/15/2015 at 12:30

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EGR has almost everything to do with the oxygen sensor. By feeding the exhaust gasses back into the intake, it means that there’s less oxygen to let the gasoline burn, so the O2 sensor sends a signal to the ECU to adjust the fuel mix accordingly. It also alters the combustion chamber temperature, but that’s not as big of a deal. It’s just gas mileage. It reduces emissions per mile, but not per gallon burned, just like most of the sensors in the engine today. Cats and PCV (and I forgot about EVAP earlier) are the only things that directly reduce emissions per gallon burned and are entirely passive. There’s nothing fancy about it and the technology hasn’t changed in decades.

vwbeamer > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/15/2015 at 12:31

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The ECU and and O2 sensor are part of the emissions system on gas cars. The need to be no alterations of emmisions system on diesel to make it roll coal. You simply need to increase fuel. On the 1999-2003 VW TDi's you can roll coal by simply placing a resistor in the wiring harness going to the fuel pump. Google "evry mod". The car retains 100% of it emissions system and technically would even be legal under the law!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/15/2015 at 12:39

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I think there’s a time to hit someone else in the face with a cat, but preferably consensually.